Moviex.info – Leeching From The Bittorrent Community

Categorized | Bittorrent

Moviex.info – Leeching From The Bittorrent Community

Posted on 28 November 2007 by Stuart

Moviex.info is a private members only bittorrent community and tracker that has been setup and configured to leech file sources from public bittorrent users, their tracker configuration allows only seeding for external users with downloading being blocked for non members of moviex.info.

The large amount of private bittorrent tracker web sites are exactly that, private and for registered members only. When a member signs up to a private bittorrent tracker community they are normally provided with a uniqe ID often called a PassKey. This uniqe passkey then allows users to download torrents from the the site and gives the sites tracker a mean’s to monitor that individuals download and upload ratios/amount.

A user that downloads a torrent from a private tracker and that is not a member of that tracker will usually get a tracker connection failure in their bittorrent client. They will not be able to download or upload any data from that torrent, more often than not rendering the torrent useless to them.

This is the basis that most private bittorrent sites work upon, most that is apart from www.moviex.info.

Over that past few months bittorrent users have noticed a sudden rise in torrent files being uploaded to public indexing sites like newtorrents.info, mininova.org, and thepiratebay.org that contains a tracker url belonging to moviex.info, newtorrents.info is indicated as being the most polutted site containing these torrent file uploads.

The two tracker urls that are present in these uploaded torrents are the pirate bay along with the moviex.info url that always has the same passkey present, presumably the passkey for an anonymous user.

http://www.moviex.info:2710/r12xjr0azivx42cjuyzn3c73mdqxj31q/announce
http://vip.tracker.thepiratebay.org/announce

To see a pirate bay tracker URL present in a torrent file is nothing out of the ordinary so what’s special about the Moviex.info URL being present in public torrents we may hear you ask, well the message you get when trying to connect to the moviex.info tracker if you are not a member below should just about say it all.

Moviex.info Leech Image

You can clearly see from the tracker message that moviex.info allows non members of their site who have downloaded the torrent file to seed parts but never actually download any from their members, this is a huge bonus for moviex.info tracker and it’s members. Currently NewTorrents.info provides 1000’s of downloads per day to torrent users and reportedly 50% of the available torrents on that site have the moviex.info tracker URL present, the percentage may be higher.

These deliberatley and consistently uploaded torrent files allow members of Moviex.info to leech data from the external users that have downloaded the torrent file from newtorrents.info, the bonus for moviex.info members is that they never have to and cannot upload a kb of that torrent to the non moviex member.

It’s a pretty nice system if you want your private tracker to gain external seeds along with faster download speeds for your members, It’s however also a very damaging method for any user who is not a member of MovieX.info as they will continually upload pieces of the torrent to users who will give nothing back.

How can you stop uploading to the leech tracker of moviex.info, well if you download a torrent file from a public tracker check the tracker URL’s and remove the one below if it is present. This will stop you seeding the file on that tracker and in turn not allow members of moviex.info to leech data from you.

http://www.moviex.info:2710/r12xjr0azivx42cjuyzn3c73mdqxj31q/announce

You could also try blocking the moviex tracker by the IP Address below in your IP filter if your not a member.

206.53.62.206

Moviex have taken the time to code this feature into their tracker and at the moment as far as P2PViNE can tell are the only private site exploiting this type of dirty hack to leech from external bittorrent users.

What moviex.info should do is not allow external users with no passkey to connect to their tracker in any way, instead they deliberatley setup to leech as much from the bittorrent community as possible.

UPDATE: PeerGuardian 2 now blocks moviex.info from connectig to your torrent client, you can download the PeerGuardian 2 installer from HERE.

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Tags | Bittorrent, leech, leeching, Moviex.info, p2p abuse, p2p spam, private tracker

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53 Comments For This Post

Underhanded Said on:
November 28th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

Filthy scum.
From The Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 6:19 am

u sux dude moviex rules
d bo Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

this report is just simply unfounded. obviously written by someone with no first hand experience with moviex whatsoever. why dont you get a real clue and visit our site. you’ll see the huge amounts of data our own member do upload within our community. by far we seed more than download. our methods keep our site leecher free.
UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

As a private tracker MovieX strives for the best interests of it’s members, opening it up for full access to everyone would dissolve the framework that makes it private. I do find their method of referral to be undesirable but that is the way the admins have chosen…

MovieX is NOT a Demonoid – if you do not agree with their practices remove yourself from association and delete the tracker from your torrents. The experience at the site is a friendly, communal one; we wish to preserve it!

Please do not mistake the intent of these ‘planted’ torrents…they are more a method of discovery than a method of parasitism…
zepski Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

i don’t get what the fuss is all about. Seeing as users of moviex site don’t goto the pirate bay to get the torrent moviex. The torrents hosted there do not contain the pirate bay’s tracker or any other. So they don’t benefit from it in anyway.

all putting the torrents on the other sites does is advertise moviex nothing more. since the torrents they host don’t use the public trackers and the public can’t access their private tracker no one gains or looses anything.
Captin Awesome Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

gb/2 isohunt.
UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:17 pm

For Clarification:

These ‘planted’ torrents are more or less a subtle form of advertisement…they are intended to draw attention…silently…
UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

One Last Bit:

As soon as one gains membership, they are advised to throw away the outside torrent…it’s invalid for use within the site, those torrents posted outside are simply generic copies of what is inside.

Thus, no leeching from anyone is occuring…

There is no basis upon this claim of leeching, it is unprecedented, unfounded, and ill-guided.
Anonymous Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:53 pm

For one thing, its mechanically impossible to seed more than you download, because even in the ultimate best case scenario, the combined ratio is going to be 0.9^ten bijillion.

secondly, yes, it is parasitism. Despite it being nearly the smallest conceivable amount ( a mighty single line of code) you(whoever is doing this)’re wasting bandwidth of the http server, the end user who is sending meaningless requests, and your own damn server which is saying, oi, you ; no.

DHT could be easily overridden with a few moments of arcana, so that you could indeed get disconnected seeds from somewhere else.

not, admittedly that i’m condeming yez. being a smart greasy bastard is what the internet has always been about, and i’m impressed that you;ve managed to find some funky way of outmanouvering the inherent Give and ye Shal Recieve mentality of bittorrent to such an impressive degree

makes me with my lifetime ration of .05 with some three terrabytes seem pitiful in comparison.

good job, exploiting the ignorant is the way to go ^^
d bo Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 12:46 am

DHT is disabled by default within our system anyways. those torrents posted on other sites are pretty much confined to that specific tracker system anyways. many of those torrents are as said generic and arent always the same torrents that actual moviex users are connected to.

many of our users come from seeing the moviex announce url in the tracker lists. like myself – since we have open registrations, its not exactly hard to go join the site.
UncertainIntent Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 12:47 am

We do not feed off the bandwidth of other clients, all peers on the torrents there are listed in statistics, there are no extra peers connecting from anywhere.
Anonymous Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

-Begin Cut/Paste from MovieX.info Tutorial-

Error: you are not allowed to leech, you are only allowed to seed (or something similar…)

all you need to do is find the same torrent here. use the search tab up the top. click on the link in the post for the torrent you want.

the reason your getting this error is probably because you found the copy of the torrent you have on another site. a ‘generic’ tracker passkey is used, this tracker has the moviex info and is followed by a mix of letters and numbers starting with r12….

once you connect though moviex, you will get your own personal passkey added to the same torrent. you don’t have to start the download over, your passkey will be added.

it may take a few minutes to start. if your still having problems connecting… try to manually restart the torrent in your client. this may take a few times…. then wait. you should connect within a few minutes. if this step doesn’t work, restart your client.”

-End Cut/Paste-
UncertainIntent Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 4:49 am

I myself have been monitoring this entire issue from both perspectives. The fact of the matter is that every site needs a method of advertisement, MovieX is not the first to ‘plant’ torrents at public sites…the only difference here is that instead of forcing registration to access a torrent we allow the average public tracker user to download. These torrents are 100% uploaded and maintained by an account held by a MovieX entity…how do you think anyone completes the file in the first place? There is seeding constantly going on to ensure the health of the public torrents…the least that could be done is show a bit of appreciation that the site is sharing it’s great content publicly and making itself known. Furthermore, the torrent that is placed externally is one that is inert inside…there are official versions of each publicly placed torrent inside…each new user tosses away the old and the new is loaded…when this happens it stops anyone from outside from transferring to that peer. Any seeding that occurs between those with the ‘planted’ torrents is just that…seeding between the people who have the planted torrent…and nothing more. There are no seeds from external sources inside, all are accounted for in statistics, having external seeders would compromise security – and that is something wished to be preserved at such a great community.

The most these accusations will do – as bball has already followed through with – is increase the userbase at MovieX, and nothing more…
AgentSmith Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 5:13 am

UncertainInten you should change you name to “uncertain of what to write” or certain bullshit. I see five posts of yours here and none explain adequately your point of view.

It seems pretty clear what MovieX is doing if you have half a brain and your simply being blinded by site love, ahh so sweet and innocent. You might even get to be a MoDerator at MovieX one day if you continue your good defence work. lol
Pc Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 5:54 am

If you read and try the method for yourself you would see he is 100% correct

after you register your new official private torrent from the site only dls and uls from moviex members…the outsiders can only download from the outsiders and the original seedbox

see for yourself
UncertainIntent Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 8:14 am

Check the Slyck.com post of this article…all is explained…by an Admin…you guys asked for it, now you got it.
zdfg Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 7:31 pm

I can only confirm this. Happened to me only on one torrent so far, and I’ve just removed the offending tracker from the tracker list in Azureus. However I doubt 95% user will be able to do it. We need new releases of populer P2P clients to combat this, and it will take some time for these to get installed by folks.
Also funny that Anti-P2P industry didn’t come up with this, but I’m sure they are jumping in already.
Andy Said on:
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 am

For all the moviex users here saying that moviex doesn’t leech off public peers, why does any of this concern you?

If that is true then when the moviex trackers have been added to all the public blocklists, ipfilters and firewalls, nothing will change for you.
UncertainIntent Said on:
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 pm

Leeching from our tracker has been enabled, and our global seeder to peer ratio has been relegated to waste: .68 – That drop shows that with no limits in place you leech from us. Who’s doing wrong here?

The problem with public trackers is that they do not encourage seeding in any way, most of the users mindsets are to grab the torrent they want and run…that is why the system has leeching limits…
BTAU Said on:
December 6th, 2007 at 11:29 pm

Whoever is uploading these torrent files in the first place should stop providing their service to crappy sites like newtorrents.info. Imagine how much more crappier their site would be if they were getting “50%” less new torrents. For fuck sake they’re providing a service and no-ones forcing anyone to continue seeding once they’ve finished downloading. Grow a fucking brain guys.
billybob112 Said on:
December 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Easiest way to disable moviex.info (in vista) is to block your bittorrent client from accessing it using firewall settings.

To do this you need to be admin. Go to the admin tools menu and choose “windows firewall with advanced settings”.

In the outbound rules, right click and select new rule. Then follow the prompts:
- enter the program (e.g. utorrent) path
- choose block the connection
- choose private and public
- give it a name
Then go to the scope tab and change the remote ip address and add “206.53.62.64″ to it.

Utorrent (or the client you use) now reports it as “attempt made to access… forbidden by access permissions”.

That’s it. Goodbye moviex.info. Repeat for all other bandwidth farmers.
P2PNovice Said on:
December 31st, 2007 at 12:15 am

I hadde no clue what Moviex.info was or was doing before i installed PeerGuardian 2. If it is advertising or Abuse i do not know. Any way i do not want any thing to do whit it. To moviex, Consider your self blocked. If you do not Leech or abuse this will not matter to you… will it.
Peezee Said on:
January 15th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Thanks for your well documented “report”.
I was experiencing alot of this “leeching forbidden, you are only allowed to seed” stuff from MovieX. I don’t get why some people are putting these phony torrents on honest sites like thepiratebay, it’s about 50% of the torrents there now. I don’t care if insiders only download from insiders, your wasting our bandwidth, and this way of “advertising” has only gotten you guys in the PeerGuardian filter, good job.
xor Said on:
January 17th, 2008 at 9:02 am

“Please do not mistake the intent of these ‘planted’ torrents…they are more a method of discovery than a method of parasitism…”

UncertainIntent you fucking cock sucker!!!
Everyone can discover you fucking site if you use a torrent that doesn’t allow any connections from non members! You just don’t allow non member DOWNLOADERS to connect, when someone starts seeding the story changes!
You fuck heads are leeching from the public, and you’re worst then leechers, because as bad as they are, at least they don’t pretend to be the good guys. They just want to watch some movies without breaking the bank, they don’t want to make money from VIP accounts that feed of the public’s bandwidth.
Someone will DDOS you fucking asses to the ground, rest assured!
infinitek Said on:
January 20th, 2008 at 7:28 am

Maybe someone can explain my experience with moviex.info.

First when I downloaded their torrents (unawares) from public sites (mostly mininova) I got the error message mentioned in the article (seeding allowed but no leeching).

the first thing I did was to go to their website to join (my-bad according to some above). Anyway, I was given an error message saying my IP was already a member. However I have a dynamic ip, and have never joined.

After several failed attempts and an unrepsonsive email to the site administrator I thought I would try other ways.

So I next went to pirate bay and became a registered member there (noting that one of the tracker addresses was from there).

After this, the torrent started working! However each torrent stopped at a certain percentage. One stopped at 60%, another at %25.

After a few days of nothing I tried going to isohunt. There I found different tracker addresses for these torrents. By adding these to the tracker list for each torrent (using azureus) the download then commenced.

I have had some interesting issues with this. I have found that I have had to delete the moviex.info tracker to make it work. Also in certain instances I have had to try one tracker at a time.

Anyway it has worked in each case so far, although has been slow.

My ratio is well over 1, and I always seed more than I leech. I gave over double back the first one I had success with in the hope that moviex.info would somehow pick it up and lose the ban on my ip.

Anyway all to no avail. Still no email response, still banned, and after reading this article will try to avoid their torrents all together in future.
Idonno Said on:
January 20th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

I strongly disagree with your Position on Moviex. If it weren’t for all the ‘leechy jerks’ there would be no need for a place like Moviex in the first place. I can’t tell you all the times I seed to multiple ‘leechy jerks’ who never return the favor after their torrent completes so I can stop seeding with out cutting everyone off. Over and over people just cut and run after completing their torrent. Moviex has a refreshing policy of requiring a 1.1 to 1 ratio and they will automatically ban you for anything less than 70%. I wish it was 110% to make up for the 10% who actually pay to keep the site going (MovieX has no adds and annoying Pop-ups) and therefore don’t have a mandatory ratio. I joined Moviex today After being impressed buy the rules. Realized Moviex was blocked and researched the issue. Moviex posted some very compelling rebuttals Like all the Torrents with the Double trackers do allow non-members to leech (The tracker belonging to MovieX allow non-members to leech but only up to a certain point at witch time they can still seed to moviex. After all they did leech from Moviex. Only fair! And they can continue to leech off the other tracker. If the other tracker is now dead due to all the ‘leechy jerks’ on public trackers Moviex should not be to blame. But it is exactly why more decent P2P’ers will join communities like Moviex and all the ‘leechy jerks’ are complaining. If all P2P’ers were considerate there would be no complaints, Probably no MovieX and plenty of live torrents for everyone.
eugene3 Said on:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

uncertain intent is in fact the owner of moviex. if you want to hassle him……….ajswann@gmail.com
Leonard Said on:
March 4th, 2008 at 3:42 am

MovieX sucks, but who cares? I use PeerGuardian so it’s blocked. BTW, my ratio is >1:1. I just hate having to sign up.
heyitsmez Said on:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:57 am

oh yeah my ratio is 10:1, I edited the text file myself
sam Said on:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

moviex are leeching assholes, all they do is leech off from public and whine about leechers not giving back. its a free world, just because we don`t wont to join your shitty site doesnt mean we don`t seed. All you are trying to do is force peaple to join you or make money off people who don`t using the so called vip system to leech off the public. you people make me sick :@
mack Said on:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

just deleted moviex.info tracker and my seeding have droped by 60% . what can u say about it ? and i still don’t have any plans of registering on theyr website.
gaspah Said on:
March 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

“by far we seed more than download.”

so who the hell do you upload to???? how can you leech from the BT community and still say you seed more than you leech????

I want my data going to the regular BT community not you s.lut.s

I hope somebody DDoS you f.uck.er.s into the stoneage…
Henrik Said on:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Would be nice with ratios on all sites.

I try to be fair but i must admit i have made a few hit and runs, especially on piratebay, because theres no sanctions.
All in all i have a ratio of 0.768 (142GB/185GB), but i have 1.1 on moviex.
I like movieX, but are in no position to judge if there methods are wrong, but i don’t see the problem when you can just sign up.

The biggest problem i think is also that the majority of leecheres have an DSL connection that allways have a higher download than upload.
popparoach Said on:
April 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

use this instead of the one given
h**p://www.moviex.info:2710/i74dpi265mpjyo522hduwxfa9xucvt6u/announce
just copy and paste into properties of torrent, remember to change the **”s to tt’s and that should get you going
piratebayuser Said on:
April 30th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

I suggest everyone who downloads a torrent from piratebay or other non-private torrent site to check the trackers before starting the download: if there is moviex-tracker just simply remove it.
There is no reason to share for moviex-useres if they don’t share to non-moviex-users. It’s that simple.
king creep Said on:
May 1st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

I upload at a global rate of 3kbs/sec and download at 620 kbs/sec. my ratio is perfect just the way it is. thx for seeding. i will never stop the hit and run. when you pay for my bandwidth i might reconsider
CrazyVampire Said on:
May 5th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

So – if you use MovieX’s tracker for non-registered users then you are allowed to seed (to MovieX users) but not download anything. Even if MovieX’s intent with the planted torrents is to advertise and not to leech – the side effect is that they are leeching.

By planting their generic tracker within other torrents, they are causing people to (unknowingly) give up their bandwidth in such a way that only benefits MovieX members. This is not fair or neutral.

If MovieX want to advertise then have their generic tracker allow downloads, OR prevent upload. Any other way is unethical. As such I now check my tracker lists for MovieX ones and remove them where I see them. Will install moblock sometime later when I have spare time …
Amani77 Said on:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

“d bo Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

this report is just simply unfounded. obviously written by someone with no first hand experience with moviex whatsoever. why dont you get a real clue and visit our site. you’ll see the huge amounts of data our own member do upload within our community. by far we seed more than download. our methods keep our site leecher free.”

Although you are correct in the fact that this method ensures that there are no leachers; You are missing the point altogether: Moviex is becoming one large leacher, leaching off of a public community and giving nothing in return. I may just ask the same question, “why dont you get a real clue”. You are advertising moviex as some ‘above standard’ site that provides great speeds for their users due to a required upload to download ratio, however, at the same time the whole community is becoming what they so, gracefully, discriminate against.

They are taking but not giving. They are blocking EVERY sort of download from their tracker and accepting ALL uploads. Again, they are taking but not giving.

Much of the public community are not concerned about how moviex works, nor do they care about complexity of trackers. They are concerned that a leach, and a large one at that, is slowly sucking away bandwidth that was intended for people who give BACK to the community.
anon Said on:
May 20th, 2008 at 10:27 am

Fuck moviex and fuck piratebay for letting this go on.
ZanoZik Said on:
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 am

For those of you with home local networks, consider adding moviex.info or their ip 206.53.62.206 to your gateway firewall settings (like parental filter). This will disable moviex for all computers connected to your network.
This kind of setting do not require you to have a local firewall installed on a pc, cannot be overridden, and will be there even after pc OS reinstall or new computer purchase etc.
sathuros Said on:
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:33 pm

I have an acc on moviex and I wasn’t looking at the ratio and now I can’t dl anything from them. But I got much to seed but I need the moviex trackers so I can highten my ratio? Do u guys have any suggestions on what to do?
Franklin Mint Said on:
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm

MovieX Can Suck My Fuckin Balls!!!!…I Registered On Their Site And I Downloaded 1 Fucking Movie,…Wich Was A Shitty Cam That Was Tagged “DVDSCREENER”
at 1.28GB ,…So I Let It Seed For 2 Days ,…I Checked My Torrent Client And Moviex was the only tracker running, and was seeding at 80kB/s for three days to build up my ratio,..I checked everyday to see if they had updated my ratio,…NOPE Never did and I ended up getting banned,…Cannot log in or register I.P. Is Banned,…I Joined Demonoid Recently When They Had Open Registrations And I Love It,…No Problems With Upload/Download Ratio,…

MoxieX is a LEECH site They Dont Have A Large Community They Let Members in for a couple Days Just To Ban Them,…I Would Be Carefull I Think Its A SCAM SITE ,I Think They Add Their Trackers Along Side TPB’s When Downloading From New Torrents,…For The Unknowing Averadge Joe,…It Is Just Spying On Everything Yopu Are Doing,…BE Carefull!!!! MOVIEX is Nothing To Play With!!!
Rance Said on:
July 31st, 2008 at 12:36 am

this is like making a bittorrent client that only downloads and doesn’t upload. MOVIEX.INFO SUCKS
Zeusmorg Said on:
August 27th, 2008 at 6:59 am

I have verified the information within this story, it is accurate, the moviex site allows external connections WITHOUT allowing external users to connect with any member of moviex for downloads, if this isn’t leeching , what is?

I have set up my firewall rules to deny access to any moviex user since it can only upload data from me without allowing me to have download from them.

I have verified the one way access.
moviex 4fags Said on:
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Don’t just block the IP, make a hosts entry and redirect moviex.info to 127.0.0.1. That way the asshats can’t change their IP.

For you faggots that tout moviex, you’re missing the point: The point is that moviex leeches off of thepiratebay (and others). So while you think it’s so great because everyone leeches and no one has to seed, it’s because you’re stealing bandwidth from the other communities.

Moviex should either isolate itself or die. Everyone who is not part of it *must* remove themselves.
nut Said on:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

moviex.info are the scum of the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! delete their tracker from all your torrent tracker lists! i have not used torrents for about 2 years and only a few days ago started using them again i noticed something was wrong because my upload was higher than my downloads 8-0 i seed every thing over 1-1 and used to download files days before i seeded back 1-1 now i seed more than i download! after searching the net i arrive here and can see whats happening and it makes perfect sense now 8-(

PPL this is going to kill the BT community in the end they want you to pay for the privilege of becoming a VIP so you can download from the public without sharing anything back the price they ask for this privilege is even more per month than “NEWS GROUPS” If you want to leech and not seed anything back then look to join a news groups provider you will get what you pay for good value full pelt downloads!! (max out connection speeds) dont pay these scamming mother f****ers from moviex.info for what should be free i.e> torrents this is different to news groups they are not scamers! yo pay to download from their servers theses mother f***ers from moviex.org charge you to download from me and the rest of the BT community without giving anything back! they make money for nothing they are scamming b*stards!

DONT LET THEM KILL THE BT COMMUNITY WITH THEIR GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ace Said on:
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:53 am

How do you all from moviex not understand that this is pure parasitism??

“As soon as one gains membership, they are advised to throw away the outside torrent…it’s invalid for use within the site, those torrents posted outside are simply generic copies of what is inside.”

Exactly, people who download the torrent from the public site will still connect to the SAME tracker you are using (in addition to the public one), where they will upload to you through the moviex tracker. However, they cannot download from you because they are not members of moviex. Therefore you are leeching from everyone who downloads the file from a public tracker, while not seeding a thing to them. Yes you are still seeding to members of moviex, but that is not the issue. The issue is that the private tracker is purely leeching from nonmembers.

“this report is just simply unfounded. obviously written by someone with no first hand experience with moviex whatsoever. why dont you get a real clue and visit our site. you’ll see the huge amounts of data our own member do upload within our community”

Or…you have no idea what you are talking about. As I said, you are still sharing WITHIN YOUR COMMUNITY, but solely leeching from everyone outside of it. All other private trackers simply ban nonmembers from using their tracker. Instead moviex allows them to (most likely unknowingly until this article came out) upload, but not download from their tracker.
sunka Said on:
October 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

u suck! MOVIEX OWNES!
Darryl Hahn Said on:
November 13th, 2008 at 2:47 am

vq232804aj3xasiz
Ben Said on:
December 27th, 2008 at 3:47 am

If Moviex.info isnt leaching off public torrents then why do I get pinged by them
every three seconds when there tracker is in a torrent I am downloading, they are obviously trying to connect to me for some reason RIGHT! And to the silently advertising WHO THE HELL ADVERTISES SILENTLY seems to be a conflict in the two words Advertise and Silent.

I personally belong to a private tracker site who enforce ratio rules of 1:1 or better. All content provided within the site is uploaded by our members and you would never find our tracker inside a public torrent, because that is useless.

So what reason would moviex.info’s IP be trying to connect to me for if not to leach for its members. Its obviously not trying to connect to me to provide or it wouldn’t be a private track now would it!!!!!!

Moviex.info members are worse that people that hit and run on torrents and should be disemboweled with a wire hanger

peerguardian lists there IPs as P2P/abusers and thats just what they are

so all you who advocate them STFU and have a great day….
j p Said on:
May 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am

hi how do i come a member are what do i do to come a member? thx you for your time too read this jp
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2 Trackbacks For This Post

MovieX Leeches From The BitTorrent Community | TorrentFreak
December 1st, 2007 at 1:33 am
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July 25th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Underhanded Said on:
November 28th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

Filthy scum.

From The Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 6:19 am

u sux dude moviex rules

d bo Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

this report is just simply unfounded. obviously written by someone with no first hand experience with moviex whatsoever. why dont you get a real clue and visit our site. you’ll see the huge amounts of data our own member do upload within our community. by far we seed more than download. our methods keep our site leecher free.

UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

As a private tracker MovieX strives for the best interests of it’s members, opening it up for full access to everyone would dissolve the framework that makes it private. I do find their method of referral to be undesirable but that is the way the admins have chosen…

MovieX is NOT a Demonoid – if you do not agree with their practices remove yourself from association and delete the tracker from your torrents. The experience at the site is a friendly, communal one; we wish to preserve it!

Please do not mistake the intent of these ‘planted’ torrents…they are more a method of discovery than a method of parasitism…

zepski Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

i don’t get what the fuss is all about. Seeing as users of moviex site don’t goto the pirate bay to get the torrent moviex. The torrents hosted there do not contain the pirate bay’s tracker or any other. So they don’t benefit from it in anyway.

all putting the torrents on the other sites does is advertise moviex nothing more. since the torrents they host don’t use the public trackers and the public can’t access their private tracker no one gains or looses anything.

Captin Awesome Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

gb/2 isohunt.

UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:17 pm

For Clarification:

These ‘planted’ torrents are more or less a subtle form of advertisement…they are intended to draw attention…silently…

UncertainIntent Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

One Last Bit:

As soon as one gains membership, they are advised to throw away the outside torrent…it’s invalid for use within the site, those torrents posted outside are simply generic copies of what is inside.

Thus, no leeching from anyone is occuring…

There is no basis upon this claim of leeching, it is unprecedented, unfounded, and ill-guided.

Anonymous Said on:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:53 pm

For one thing, its mechanically impossible to seed more than you download, because even in the ultimate best case scenario, the combined ratio is going to be 0.9^ten bijillion.

secondly, yes, it is parasitism. Despite it being nearly the smallest conceivable amount ( a mighty single line of code) you(whoever is doing this)’re wasting bandwidth of the http server, the end user who is sending meaningless requests, and your own damn server which is saying, oi, you ; no.

DHT could be easily overridden with a few moments of arcana, so that you could indeed get disconnected seeds from somewhere else.

not, admittedly that i’m condeming yez. being a smart greasy bastard is what the internet has always been about, and i’m impressed that you;ve managed to find some funky way of outmanouvering the inherent Give and ye Shal Recieve mentality of bittorrent to such an impressive degree

makes me with my lifetime ration of .05 with some three terrabytes seem pitiful in comparison.

good job, exploiting the ignorant is the way to go ^^

d bo Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 12:46 am

DHT is disabled by default within our system anyways. those torrents posted on other sites are pretty much confined to that specific tracker system anyways. many of those torrents are as said generic and arent always the same torrents that actual moviex users are connected to.

many of our users come from seeing the moviex announce url in the tracker lists. like myself – since we have open registrations, its not exactly hard to go join the site.

UncertainIntent Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 12:47 am

We do not feed off the bandwidth of other clients, all peers on the torrents there are listed in statistics, there are no extra peers connecting from anywhere.

Anonymous Said on:
November 30th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

-Begin Cut/Paste from MovieX.info Tutorial-

Error: you are not allowed to leech, you are only allowed to seed (or something similar…)

all you need to do is find the same torrent here. use the search tab up the top. click on the link in the post for the torrent you want.

the reason your getting this error is probably because you found the copy of the torrent you have on another site. a ‘generic’ tracker passkey is used, this tracker has the moviex info and is followed by a mix of letters and numbers starting with r12….

once you connect though moviex, you will get your own personal passkey added to the same torrent. you don’t have to start the download over, your passkey will be added.

it may take a few minutes to start. if your still having problems connecting… try to manually restart the torrent in your client. this may take a few times…. then wait. you should connect within a few minutes. if this step doesn’t work, restart your client.”

-End Cut/Paste-

UncertainIntent Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 4:49 am

I myself have been monitoring this entire issue from both perspectives. The fact of the matter is that every site needs a method of advertisement, MovieX is not the first to ‘plant’ torrents at public sites…the only difference here is that instead of forcing registration to access a torrent we allow the average public tracker user to download. These torrents are 100% uploaded and maintained by an account held by a MovieX entity…how do you think anyone completes the file in the first place? There is seeding constantly going on to ensure the health of the public torrents…the least that could be done is show a bit of appreciation that the site is sharing it’s great content publicly and making itself known. Furthermore, the torrent that is placed externally is one that is inert inside…there are official versions of each publicly placed torrent inside…each new user tosses away the old and the new is loaded…when this happens it stops anyone from outside from transferring to that peer. Any seeding that occurs between those with the ‘planted’ torrents is just that…seeding between the people who have the planted torrent…and nothing more. There are no seeds from external sources inside, all are accounted for in statistics, having external seeders would compromise security – and that is something wished to be preserved at such a great community.

The most these accusations will do – as bball has already followed through with – is increase the userbase at MovieX, and nothing more…

AgentSmith Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 5:13 am

UncertainInten you should change you name to “uncertain of what to write” or certain bullshit. I see five posts of yours here and none explain adequately your point of view.

It seems pretty clear what MovieX is doing if you have half a brain and your simply being blinded by site love, ahh so sweet and innocent. You might even get to be a MoDerator at MovieX one day if you continue your good defence work. lol

Pc Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 5:54 am

If you read and try the method for yourself you would see he is 100% correct

after you register your new official private torrent from the site only dls and uls from moviex members…the outsiders can only download from the outsiders and the original seedbox

see for yourself

UncertainIntent Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 8:14 am

Check the Slyck.com post of this article…all is explained…by an Admin…you guys asked for it, now you got it.

zdfg Said on:
December 1st, 2007 at 7:31 pm

I can only confirm this. Happened to me only on one torrent so far, and I’ve just removed the offending tracker from the tracker list in Azureus. However I doubt 95% user will be able to do it. We need new releases of populer P2P clients to combat this, and it will take some time for these to get installed by folks.
Also funny that Anti-P2P industry didn’t come up with this, but I’m sure they are jumping in already.

Andy Said on:
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 am

For all the moviex users here saying that moviex doesn’t leech off public peers, why does any of this concern you?

If that is true then when the moviex trackers have been added to all the public blocklists, ipfilters and firewalls, nothing will change for you.

UncertainIntent Said on:
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 pm

Leeching from our tracker has been enabled, and our global seeder to peer ratio has been relegated to waste: .68 – That drop shows that with no limits in place you leech from us. Who’s doing wrong here?

The problem with public trackers is that they do not encourage seeding in any way, most of the users mindsets are to grab the torrent they want and run…that is why the system has leeching limits…

BTAU Said on:
December 6th, 2007 at 11:29 pm

Whoever is uploading these torrent files in the first place should stop providing their service to crappy sites like newtorrents.info. Imagine how much more crappier their site would be if they were getting “50%” less new torrents. For fuck sake they’re providing a service and no-ones forcing anyone to continue seeding once they’ve finished downloading. Grow a fucking brain guys.

billybob112 Said on:
December 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Easiest way to disable moviex.info (in vista) is to block your bittorrent client from accessing it using firewall settings.

To do this you need to be admin. Go to the admin tools menu and choose “windows firewall with advanced settings”.

In the outbound rules, right click and select new rule. Then follow the prompts:
- enter the program (e.g. utorrent) path
- choose block the connection
- choose private and public
- give it a name
Then go to the scope tab and change the remote ip address and add “206.53.62.64″ to it.

Utorrent (or the client you use) now reports it as “attempt made to access… forbidden by access permissions”.

That’s it. Goodbye moviex.info. Repeat for all other bandwidth farmers.

P2PNovice Said on:
December 31st, 2007 at 12:15 am

I hadde no clue what Moviex.info was or was doing before i installed PeerGuardian 2. If it is advertising or Abuse i do not know. Any way i do not want any thing to do whit it. To moviex, Consider your self blocked. If you do not Leech or abuse this will not matter to you… will it.

Peezee Said on:
January 15th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Thanks for your well documented “report”.
I was experiencing alot of this “leeching forbidden, you are only allowed to seed” stuff from MovieX. I don’t get why some people are putting these phony torrents on honest sites like thepiratebay, it’s about 50% of the torrents there now. I don’t care if insiders only download from insiders, your wasting our bandwidth, and this way of “advertising” has only gotten you guys in the PeerGuardian filter, good job.

xor Said on:
January 17th, 2008 at 9:02 am

“Please do not mistake the intent of these ‘planted’ torrents…they are more a method of discovery than a method of parasitism…”

UncertainIntent you fucking cock sucker!!!
Everyone can discover you fucking site if you use a torrent that doesn’t allow any connections from non members! You just don’t allow non member DOWNLOADERS to connect, when someone starts seeding the story changes!
You fuck heads are leeching from the public, and you’re worst then leechers, because as bad as they are, at least they don’t pretend to be the good guys. They just want to watch some movies without breaking the bank, they don’t want to make money from VIP accounts that feed of the public’s bandwidth.
Someone will DDOS you fucking asses to the ground, rest assured!

infinitek Said on:
January 20th, 2008 at 7:28 am

Maybe someone can explain my experience with moviex.info.

First when I downloaded their torrents (unawares) from public sites (mostly mininova) I got the error message mentioned in the article (seeding allowed but no leeching).

the first thing I did was to go to their website to join (my-bad according to some above). Anyway, I was given an error message saying my IP was already a member. However I have a dynamic ip, and have never joined.

After several failed attempts and an unrepsonsive email to the site administrator I thought I would try other ways.

So I next went to pirate bay and became a registered member there (noting that one of the tracker addresses was from there).

After this, the torrent started working! However each torrent stopped at a certain percentage. One stopped at 60%, another at %25.

After a few days of nothing I tried going to isohunt. There I found different tracker addresses for these torrents. By adding these to the tracker list for each torrent (using azureus) the download then commenced.

I have had some interesting issues with this. I have found that I have had to delete the moviex.info tracker to make it work. Also in certain instances I have had to try one tracker at a time.

Anyway it has worked in each case so far, although has been slow.

My ratio is well over 1, and I always seed more than I leech. I gave over double back the first one I had success with in the hope that moviex.info would somehow pick it up and lose the ban on my ip.

Anyway all to no avail. Still no email response, still banned, and after reading this article will try to avoid their torrents all together in future.

Idonno Said on:
January 20th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

I strongly disagree with your Position on Moviex. If it weren’t for all the ‘leechy jerks’ there would be no need for a place like Moviex in the first place. I can’t tell you all the times I seed to multiple ‘leechy jerks’ who never return the favor after their torrent completes so I can stop seeding with out cutting everyone off. Over and over people just cut and run after completing their torrent. Moviex has a refreshing policy of requiring a 1.1 to 1 ratio and they will automatically ban you for anything less than 70%. I wish it was 110% to make up for the 10% who actually pay to keep the site going (MovieX has no adds and annoying Pop-ups) and therefore don’t have a mandatory ratio. I joined Moviex today After being impressed buy the rules. Realized Moviex was blocked and researched the issue. Moviex posted some very compelling rebuttals Like all the Torrents with the Double trackers do allow non-members to leech (The tracker belonging to MovieX allow non-members to leech but only up to a certain point at witch time they can still seed to moviex. After all they did leech from Moviex. Only fair! And they can continue to leech off the other tracker. If the other tracker is now dead due to all the ‘leechy jerks’ on public trackers Moviex should not be to blame. But it is exactly why more decent P2P’ers will join communities like Moviex and all the ‘leechy jerks’ are complaining. If all P2P’ers were considerate there would be no complaints, Probably no MovieX and plenty of live torrents for everyone.

eugene3 Said on:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

uncertain intent is in fact the owner of moviex. if you want to hassle him……….ajswann@gmail.com

Leonard Said on:
March 4th, 2008 at 3:42 am

MovieX sucks, but who cares? I use PeerGuardian so it’s blocked. BTW, my ratio is >1:1. I just hate having to sign up.

heyitsmez Said on:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:57 am

oh yeah my ratio is 10:1, I edited the text file myself

sam Said on:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

moviex are leeching assholes, all they do is leech off from public and whine about leechers not giving back. its a free world, just because we don`t wont to join your shitty site doesnt mean we don`t seed. All you are trying to do is force peaple to join you or make money off people who don`t using the so called vip system to leech off the public. you people make me sick :@

mack Said on:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

just deleted moviex.info tracker and my seeding have droped by 60% . what can u say about it ? and i still don’t have any plans of registering on theyr website.

gaspah Said on:
March 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

“by far we seed more than download.”

so who the hell do you upload to???? how can you leech from the BT community and still say you seed more than you leech????

I want my data going to the regular BT community not you s.lut.s

I hope somebody DDoS you f.uck.er.s into the stoneage…

Henrik Said on:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Would be nice with ratios on all sites.

I try to be fair but i must admit i have made a few hit and runs, especially on piratebay, because theres no sanctions.
All in all i have a ratio of 0.768 (142GB/185GB), but i have 1.1 on moviex.
I like movieX, but are in no position to judge if there methods are wrong, but i don’t see the problem when you can just sign up.

The biggest problem i think is also that the majority of leecheres have an DSL connection that allways have a higher download than upload.

popparoach Said on:
April 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

use this instead of the one given
h**p://www.moviex.info:2710/i74dpi265mpjyo522hduwxfa9xucvt6u/announce
just copy and paste into properties of torrent, remember to change the **”s to tt’s and that should get you going

piratebayuser Said on:
April 30th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

I suggest everyone who downloads a torrent from piratebay or other non-private torrent site to check the trackers before starting the download: if there is moviex-tracker just simply remove it.
There is no reason to share for moviex-useres if they don’t share to non-moviex-users. It’s that simple.

king creep Said on:
May 1st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

I upload at a global rate of 3kbs/sec and download at 620 kbs/sec. my ratio is perfect just the way it is. thx for seeding. i will never stop the hit and run. when you pay for my bandwidth i might reconsider

CrazyVampire Said on:
May 5th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

So – if you use MovieX’s tracker for non-registered users then you are allowed to seed (to MovieX users) but not download anything. Even if MovieX’s intent with the planted torrents is to advertise and not to leech – the side effect is that they are leeching.

By planting their generic tracker within other torrents, they are causing people to (unknowingly) give up their bandwidth in such a way that only benefits MovieX members. This is not fair or neutral.

If MovieX want to advertise then have their generic tracker allow downloads, OR prevent upload. Any other way is unethical. As such I now check my tracker lists for MovieX ones and remove them where I see them. Will install moblock sometime later when I have spare time …

Amani77 Said on:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

“d bo Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Although you are correct in the fact that this method ensures that there are no leachers; You are missing the point altogether: Moviex is becoming one large leacher, leaching off of a public community and giving nothing in return. I may just ask the same question, “why dont you get a real clue”. You are advertising moviex as some ‘above standard’ site that provides great speeds for their users due to a required upload to download ratio, however, at the same time the whole community is becoming what they so, gracefully, discriminate against.

They are taking but not giving. They are blocking EVERY sort of download from their tracker and accepting ALL uploads. Again, they are taking but not giving.

Much of the public community are not concerned about how moviex works, nor do they care about complexity of trackers. They are concerned that a leach, and a large one at that, is slowly sucking away bandwidth that was intended for people who give BACK to the community.

anon Said on:
May 20th, 2008 at 10:27 am

Fuck moviex and fuck piratebay for letting this go on.

ZanoZik Said on:
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 am

For those of you with home local networks, consider adding moviex.info or their ip 206.53.62.206 to your gateway firewall settings (like parental filter). This will disable moviex for all computers connected to your network.
This kind of setting do not require you to have a local firewall installed on a pc, cannot be overridden, and will be there even after pc OS reinstall or new computer purchase etc.

sathuros Said on:
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:33 pm

I have an acc on moviex and I wasn’t looking at the ratio and now I can’t dl anything from them. But I got much to seed but I need the moviex trackers so I can highten my ratio? Do u guys have any suggestions on what to do?

Franklin Mint Said on:
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm

MovieX Can Suck My Fuckin Balls!!!!…I Registered On Their Site And I Downloaded 1 Fucking Movie,…Wich Was A Shitty Cam That Was Tagged “DVDSCREENER”
at 1.28GB ,…So I Let It Seed For 2 Days ,…I Checked My Torrent Client And Moviex was the only tracker running, and was seeding at 80kB/s for three days to build up my ratio,..I checked everyday to see if they had updated my ratio,…NOPE Never did and I ended up getting banned,…Cannot log in or register I.P. Is Banned,…I Joined Demonoid Recently When They Had Open Registrations And I Love It,…No Problems With Upload/Download Ratio,…

MoxieX is a LEECH site They Dont Have A Large Community They Let Members in for a couple Days Just To Ban Them,…I Would Be Carefull I Think Its A SCAM SITE ,I Think They Add Their Trackers Along Side TPB’s When Downloading From New Torrents,…For The Unknowing Averadge Joe,…It Is Just Spying On Everything Yopu Are Doing,…BE Carefull!!!! MOVIEX is Nothing To Play With!!!

Rance Said on:
July 31st, 2008 at 12:36 am

this is like making a bittorrent client that only downloads and doesn’t upload. MOVIEX.INFO SUCKS

Zeusmorg Said on:
August 27th, 2008 at 6:59 am

I have verified the information within this story, it is accurate, the moviex site allows external connections WITHOUT allowing external users to connect with any member of moviex for downloads, if this isn’t leeching , what is?

I have set up my firewall rules to deny access to any moviex user since it can only upload data from me without allowing me to have download from them.

I have verified the one way access.

moviex 4fags Said on:
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Don’t just block the IP, make a hosts entry and redirect moviex.info to 127.0.0.1. That way the asshats can’t change their IP.

For you faggots that tout moviex, you’re missing the point: The point is that moviex leeches off of thepiratebay (and others). So while you think it’s so great because everyone leeches and no one has to seed, it’s because you’re stealing bandwidth from the other communities.

Moviex should either isolate itself or die. Everyone who is not part of it *must* remove themselves.

nut Said on:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

moviex.info are the scum of the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! delete their tracker from all your torrent tracker lists! i have not used torrents for about 2 years and only a few days ago started using them again i noticed something was wrong because my upload was higher than my downloads 8-0 i seed every thing over 1-1 and used to download files days before i seeded back 1-1 now i seed more than i download! after searching the net i arrive here and can see whats happening and it makes perfect sense now 8-(

PPL this is going to kill the BT community in the end they want you to pay for the privilege of becoming a VIP so you can download from the public without sharing anything back the price they ask for this privilege is even more per month than “NEWS GROUPS” If you want to leech and not seed anything back then look to join a news groups provider you will get what you pay for good value full pelt downloads!! (max out connection speeds) dont pay these scamming mother f****ers from moviex.info for what should be free i.e> torrents this is different to news groups they are not scamers! yo pay to download from their servers theses mother f***ers from moviex.org charge you to download from me and the rest of the BT community without giving anything back! they make money for nothing they are scamming b*stards!

DONT LET THEM KILL THE BT COMMUNITY WITH THEIR GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ace Said on:
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:53 am

How do you all from moviex not understand that this is pure parasitism??

“As soon as one gains membership, they are advised to throw away the outside torrent…it’s invalid for use within the site, those torrents posted outside are simply generic copies of what is inside.”

Exactly, people who download the torrent from the public site will still connect to the SAME tracker you are using (in addition to the public one), where they will upload to you through the moviex tracker. However, they cannot download from you because they are not members of moviex. Therefore you are leeching from everyone who downloads the file from a public tracker, while not seeding a thing to them. Yes you are still seeding to members of moviex, but that is not the issue. The issue is that the private tracker is purely leeching from nonmembers.

“this report is just simply unfounded. obviously written by someone with no first hand experience with moviex whatsoever. why dont you get a real clue and visit our site. you’ll see the huge amounts of data our own member do upload within our community”

Or…you have no idea what you are talking about. As I said, you are still sharing WITHIN YOUR COMMUNITY, but solely leeching from everyone outside of it. All other private trackers simply ban nonmembers from using their tracker. Instead moviex allows them to (most likely unknowingly until this article came out) upload, but not download from their tracker.

sunka Said on:
October 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

u suck! MOVIEX OWNES!

Darryl Hahn Said on:
November 13th, 2008 at 2:47 am

vq232804aj3xasiz

Ben Said on:
December 27th, 2008 at 3:47 am

If Moviex.info isnt leaching off public torrents then why do I get pinged by them
every three seconds when there tracker is in a torrent I am downloading, they are obviously trying to connect to me for some reason RIGHT! And to the silently advertising WHO THE HELL ADVERTISES SILENTLY seems to be a conflict in the two words Advertise and Silent.

I personally belong to a private tracker site who enforce ratio rules of 1:1 or better. All content provided within the site is uploaded by our members and you would never find our tracker inside a public torrent, because that is useless.

So what reason would moviex.info’s IP be trying to connect to me for if not to leach for its members. Its obviously not trying to connect to me to provide or it wouldn’t be a private track now would it!!!!!!

Moviex.info members are worse that people that hit and run on torrents and should be disemboweled with a wire hanger

peerguardian lists there IPs as P2P/abusers and thats just what they are

so all you who advocate them STFU and have a great day….

j p Said on:
May 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am

hi how do i come a member are what do i do to come a member? thx you for your time too read this jp

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